Goku vs. Superman
Son Goku, Dragon Ball’s supreme Super Saiyan and the model of perseverance, drive, and determination.
Clark Kent, DC’s legendary blue beacon of hope and the defender of truth, justice, and the American way.
It’s a matchup that proudly stands at the forefront of fictional debating as a whole. These aliens came to Earth from far away in the cosmos, and became the ultimate champions of good in their worlds, and any evildoer who tries to shatter that peace will pay the consequences. And now here we are for Round 3, and while I’m sure many people groan in annoyance at this match happening again, let us set aside the negativity for a while and enjoy ourselves.
After all, what better time do we have to celebrate two of the pinnacles of media and fiction? These two heroes have certainly played parts in the lives and childhoods of people around the globe. Be they symbols of how determination and heart can overcome any challenge no matter how great, or the value of upholding the morals and qualities of the righteous, none can deny the impact Goku and Superman have had. It is only fair that the opportunity be properly embraced, and we make something of an occasion out of all this, is it not? After all, we don’t get two pillars of fiction like these two all that often. With that said, let’s go ahead and dive into this duel between Goku and Superman!
Clark Kent, DC’s legendary blue beacon of hope and the defender of truth, justice, and the American way.
It’s a matchup that proudly stands at the forefront of fictional debating as a whole. These aliens came to Earth from far away in the cosmos, and became the ultimate champions of good in their worlds, and any evildoer who tries to shatter that peace will pay the consequences. And now here we are for Round 3, and while I’m sure many people groan in annoyance at this match happening again, let us set aside the negativity for a while and enjoy ourselves.
After all, what better time do we have to celebrate two of the pinnacles of media and fiction? These two heroes have certainly played parts in the lives and childhoods of people around the globe. Be they symbols of how determination and heart can overcome any challenge no matter how great, or the value of upholding the morals and qualities of the righteous, none can deny the impact Goku and Superman have had. It is only fair that the opportunity be properly embraced, and we make something of an occasion out of all this, is it not? After all, we don’t get two pillars of fiction like these two all that often. With that said, let’s go ahead and dive into this duel between Goku and Superman!
But first...
First, we still have to catch up on the last episode. Rick vs. The Doctor was fantastic. On top of that, I’m glad my blog aged so well, such as with the De-Mat Gun countering the Phoenix Project or the use of the Sonic Screwdriver. Without a doubt, qualifying as a yay.
Yay.
Yay.
With all of that fun stuff covered, let’s go ahead and get into our decade in the making duel. Or the third round of it, anyway. Now I’ll be honest, there was a part of me that just wanted to post the following image and then just call it a day.
I’m a very lazy blogger, after all.
But I ultimately decided to put some actual effort into this, even if I am in the group that’s expecting Superman to pull off the hat trick and defeat Goku once again. Now that’s not to say I think Superman stomps in each and every category of the debate, I do think Goku possesses some genuine advantages here and there, and can keep up in others. But enough preamble, let’s go ahead and tackle some things now.
Fortunately for all of us, both Dragon Ball and DC Comics are used rather often on Death Battle, so we possess a pretty good template of where characters of these calibers are going to be placed. To make this simpler on myself, we’ll just consult my previous blog on Frieza vs. Megatron, where I calculated that Frieza can get around 2,658,000 times universal. Obviously Black Frieza is stronger than Goku at the current time, but that’s not really the point. We have a useful upper limit for where Death Battle generally places Dragon Ball top tiers, plus we can also just look at how Ultra Ego Vegeta got 265,800 universes if we want to do that. And speed got up to 3 sextillion times the speed of light for Black Frieza, so that serves as a pretty hard cap on that front.
Obviously, Superman is far above both of those, so if we were limiting ourselves to just the mainline Dragon Ball stuff, I could promptly say that Superman stomps, and then just publish my blog early. But we all know we’re not just using mainline Dragon Ball here. And I doubt my blog will be getting published early.
Editor’s Note: It definitely did not get published early.
But I ultimately decided to put some actual effort into this, even if I am in the group that’s expecting Superman to pull off the hat trick and defeat Goku once again. Now that’s not to say I think Superman stomps in each and every category of the debate, I do think Goku possesses some genuine advantages here and there, and can keep up in others. But enough preamble, let’s go ahead and tackle some things now.
Fortunately for all of us, both Dragon Ball and DC Comics are used rather often on Death Battle, so we possess a pretty good template of where characters of these calibers are going to be placed. To make this simpler on myself, we’ll just consult my previous blog on Frieza vs. Megatron, where I calculated that Frieza can get around 2,658,000 times universal. Obviously Black Frieza is stronger than Goku at the current time, but that’s not really the point. We have a useful upper limit for where Death Battle generally places Dragon Ball top tiers, plus we can also just look at how Ultra Ego Vegeta got 265,800 universes if we want to do that. And speed got up to 3 sextillion times the speed of light for Black Frieza, so that serves as a pretty hard cap on that front.
Obviously, Superman is far above both of those, so if we were limiting ourselves to just the mainline Dragon Ball stuff, I could promptly say that Superman stomps, and then just publish my blog early. But we all know we’re not just using mainline Dragon Ball here. And I doubt my blog will be getting published early.
Editor’s Note: It definitely did not get published early.
Yeah, Dragon Ball Heroes is back on the table, because apparently Trunks vs. Silver insists on following me everywhere I go. Thankfully, it’s more or less winter this time, and there is not a hurricane threatening to take out all of my power this year.
Enough of me droning on about my weather troubles, though.
Dragon Ball Heroes more or less changes the game entirely for Goku, dropping in a sizable arsenal, and higher stats. First and foremost, things like the Cooler feat or Mechikabura’s (Spelled that right on the first try, take THAT Dragon Ball names!) black hole have been used to argue Dragon Ball can reach infinite speeds. And these aren’t even the only feats that can be used to argue for it.
Point is, this can likely enable Goku to arguably hit infinite speed with a full composite, which Death Battle is doing here. And we all know how Death Battle handles two infinite speed fighters. In short, speed for this fight is likely deadlocked. I don’t really feel like I need to explain why Superman is hitting that same level of speed, the preview already put him at it. As such, I’m not going to waste any time there.
Power also gets changed up a bit given Heroes is on the scene, the big one worth looking at again comes from Mechikabura and his overgrown black hole. The black hole consumed the multiverse and its timelines, and also affected the Crack of Time. This is a pretty solid multiversal feat, which can match where Death Battle tends to put pretty much everyone in DC these days.
Dragon Ball Heroes more or less changes the game entirely for Goku, dropping in a sizable arsenal, and higher stats. First and foremost, things like the Cooler feat or Mechikabura’s (Spelled that right on the first try, take THAT Dragon Ball names!) black hole have been used to argue Dragon Ball can reach infinite speeds. And these aren’t even the only feats that can be used to argue for it.
Point is, this can likely enable Goku to arguably hit infinite speed with a full composite, which Death Battle is doing here. And we all know how Death Battle handles two infinite speed fighters. In short, speed for this fight is likely deadlocked. I don’t really feel like I need to explain why Superman is hitting that same level of speed, the preview already put him at it. As such, I’m not going to waste any time there.
Power also gets changed up a bit given Heroes is on the scene, the big one worth looking at again comes from Mechikabura and his overgrown black hole. The black hole consumed the multiverse and its timelines, and also affected the Crack of Time. This is a pretty solid multiversal feat, which can match where Death Battle tends to put pretty much everyone in DC these days.
But for the sake of keeping things interesting, let’s just go ahead and operate on the idea that Goku and Superman could possibly hit equal stats, a figure I would not be horribly surprised by Death Battle doing, to be quite honest. Obviously, the fight is much closer than most would expect, but I would still personally say that Superman has just enough edges to win the battle more often than not.
While Superman generally comes off as a bit of a flying brick with some laser beam eyes and ice breath, Clark Kent has been leading the superhero scene for a long time. It’s not really a surprise that he’s picked up a wide array of powers over the years. To be fair to Goku, Dragon Ball has a lot more powers than it tends to give it credit for. Goku is nowhere close to outmatched in the range game, and he has a surprisingly deep bag of tricks to keep his Kryptonian opponent at bay and possibly win some battles every so often.
While Superman generally comes off as a bit of a flying brick with some laser beam eyes and ice breath, Clark Kent has been leading the superhero scene for a long time. It’s not really a surprise that he’s picked up a wide array of powers over the years. To be fair to Goku, Dragon Ball has a lot more powers than it tends to give it credit for. Goku is nowhere close to outmatched in the range game, and he has a surprisingly deep bag of tricks to keep his Kryptonian opponent at bay and possibly win some battles every so often.
But Superman’s powers certainly give him an edge over Goku. Sure, some of his best options are admittedly resisted by the Super Saiyan, but it’s unlikely those same hax will work on Clark Kent in kind. Except for one possibility, anyway.
Once you get past that though, Superman likely holds the edge. We all know how DC Comics can get when it comes to random powers, and Superman is no exception. The fact that Superman can create little Supermen with those little rainbow laser things everyone likes to joke about is a solid edge here.
Yes Ray, I brought up the rainbow lasers. You’re welcome.
Jokes aside, between possible duplication and those tiny Supermen, Clark can create a pretty noteworthy numbers edge. In a fight where stats are likely equal at worst, that’s a very big deal. This is even brought up in the Desk of Death Battle on Superman’s powers, so I don’t see any reason why DB suddenly wouldn’t buy it now. It’s bizarre, but not much stops an army of tiny or otherwise Supermen from showing up and beating Goku. Even if it is really bizarre. Telepathy can likely help Superman learn of Goku’s abilities and how to counter them. And super knitting… looks pretty cool, at least.
I suppose I should really have more to say about a fight like this. But really, what’s left to be said? Pretty much everyone in debating knows this matchup rather well, and pretty much everyone comes to the same conclusion. “Superman wins.” Speaking for myself, I think Goku has a slightly better shot than most folks give him credit for, and maybe can pick up some wins every so often. But I do agree that more times than not, Superman will take the victory here. His higher ends are just much higher than Goku’s, so if Death Battle goes all out with that, then he will AP stomp. He can counter most of Goku’s hax and has powers of his own that will come in quite handy in a battle like this. A numbers advantage and ways to deal with Goku’s many ranged attacks are also quite useful to have in a battle against Goku. I expect the fight to possibly be closer than some imagine, but I do ultimately agree that more likely than not, Superman is going to be taking the victory in this Death Battle.
Yes Ray, I brought up the rainbow lasers. You’re welcome.
Jokes aside, between possible duplication and those tiny Supermen, Clark can create a pretty noteworthy numbers edge. In a fight where stats are likely equal at worst, that’s a very big deal. This is even brought up in the Desk of Death Battle on Superman’s powers, so I don’t see any reason why DB suddenly wouldn’t buy it now. It’s bizarre, but not much stops an army of tiny or otherwise Supermen from showing up and beating Goku. Even if it is really bizarre. Telepathy can likely help Superman learn of Goku’s abilities and how to counter them. And super knitting… looks pretty cool, at least.
I suppose I should really have more to say about a fight like this. But really, what’s left to be said? Pretty much everyone in debating knows this matchup rather well, and pretty much everyone comes to the same conclusion. “Superman wins.” Speaking for myself, I think Goku has a slightly better shot than most folks give him credit for, and maybe can pick up some wins every so often. But I do agree that more times than not, Superman will take the victory here. His higher ends are just much higher than Goku’s, so if Death Battle goes all out with that, then he will AP stomp. He can counter most of Goku’s hax and has powers of his own that will come in quite handy in a battle like this. A numbers advantage and ways to deal with Goku’s many ranged attacks are also quite useful to have in a battle against Goku. I expect the fight to possibly be closer than some imagine, but I do ultimately agree that more likely than not, Superman is going to be taking the victory in this Death Battle.
Final Projection
- Superman can match Goku’s stats at worst, and has much higher high-ends.
- Speed could quite likely be equal, should Goku successfully get infinite speed.
- Both sides can reliably counter a good deal of each other’s hax, but both have ways to win.
- It is quite possible the Keysword could score a win for Goku.
- Superman however has a larger array of powers and various ways to see this coming.
- Both sides are so skilled and experienced that it is unlikely for either to massively outskill the other.
- Goku likely has more consistent ranged options and good ways to cover the battlefield.
- That said, Clark can deal with this via his own ranged options, helping mitigate the edge.
On the G1 Blog...
Well, I just got back from quickly going through the G1 blog! I loved the section on the matchup’s history, that was a ton of fun, and everything was very nicely in-depth and explained. That said, I have some… thoughts. And they aren’t all exactly positive.
For starters, G1 really used the “Superman doesn’t have limits” interview statement. After Ben Singer himself already said Superman has limits. The explanation in Goku vs. Superman 2 that very few people seem to be fond of. The very explanation pretty much everyone points and laughs at in the debating community. Why did they use it?
With all very much due respect to my friends on G1, I can’t entirely say in good faith that I’m in agreement with really much of their arguments at all. Of course, I agree Superman probably wins, but the way this was carried about was extremely over the top and excessive. Interpreting The Story of Superman the way G1 did to make it where Goku is essentially doomed to lose narratively just comes off as wildly generous, a massive highball and very questionable play, and just not something I like. Let alone all the meta dimensional true forms, no-limits-fallacies on so many statements, wall of immeasurable feats at every corner, and so much more. Especially when Superman has canonically died several times in DC canon. We can’t just say Superman is narratively geared to win every time for a happy ending when he still loses sometimes, it’s an NLF at best. Sure, the story can end well, but that does not mean Clark Kent is destined to win 100% of Death Battles. Especially given Goku kind of happens to be a good guy himself, and his victory could still result in a happy ending, if we truly choose to play by this generous logic.
Ultimately, I do agree with Superman probably winning the episode being the blog’s call. But utilizing the “no limits” statement, taking The Story of Superman as generously and combat applicably as possible, and just flooding the entire blog with immeasurable and other such feats feels like a bit much. It almost feels less like a battle blog and more a Superman hype-up blog. Perhaps it isn’t my place to speak given how much I thought The Doctor beat Rick, I’m not sure. But regardless, I cannot in good faith say I agree with everything G1 said, and do think several interpretations were taken with far too much liberty. Saying Superman wins is fine, but maybe next time perhaps be a bit more scrutinizing of things? At the very least, on how they apply to battle.
But I digress, the work and effort put in certainly had to be nothing short of remarkable, and I applaud that. I hope everyone enjoys the episode, and here’s to a great finale!
With all very much due respect to my friends on G1, I can’t entirely say in good faith that I’m in agreement with really much of their arguments at all. Of course, I agree Superman probably wins, but the way this was carried about was extremely over the top and excessive. Interpreting The Story of Superman the way G1 did to make it where Goku is essentially doomed to lose narratively just comes off as wildly generous, a massive highball and very questionable play, and just not something I like. Let alone all the meta dimensional true forms, no-limits-fallacies on so many statements, wall of immeasurable feats at every corner, and so much more. Especially when Superman has canonically died several times in DC canon. We can’t just say Superman is narratively geared to win every time for a happy ending when he still loses sometimes, it’s an NLF at best. Sure, the story can end well, but that does not mean Clark Kent is destined to win 100% of Death Battles. Especially given Goku kind of happens to be a good guy himself, and his victory could still result in a happy ending, if we truly choose to play by this generous logic.
Ultimately, I do agree with Superman probably winning the episode being the blog’s call. But utilizing the “no limits” statement, taking The Story of Superman as generously and combat applicably as possible, and just flooding the entire blog with immeasurable and other such feats feels like a bit much. It almost feels less like a battle blog and more a Superman hype-up blog. Perhaps it isn’t my place to speak given how much I thought The Doctor beat Rick, I’m not sure. But regardless, I cannot in good faith say I agree with everything G1 said, and do think several interpretations were taken with far too much liberty. Saying Superman wins is fine, but maybe next time perhaps be a bit more scrutinizing of things? At the very least, on how they apply to battle.
But I digress, the work and effort put in certainly had to be nothing short of remarkable, and I applaud that. I hope everyone enjoys the episode, and here’s to a great finale!
The winner is Superman, Defender of Truth, Justice, and the American Way.